🎙 Endurance Capital | Rising above your summits, Part II — with Jonny Sammut

Ignacio (: 00:00

Welcome back to Endurance Capital. I'm so happy to be back. This episode is about a dramatic life story with plenty of life lessons that we are all going to learn from. This is the story of Johnny Sammott from Perth in Western Australia. Don't expect a celebrity or a world champion like before. You will hear how a professional triathlete recomposes his life after a

Ignacio (: 00:27

fatal accident to rise above his summits. But first, let me tell you why John is here. In April, 2024, I crashed on the bike and broke my right femur. No kidding. One surgery, months of rehab, and a promise to myself that I would race again. As many of I love racing in Ironman triathlons, but I have to be very honest with you about how that promise is going.

Ignacio (: 00:54

As we record this episode, my accident took place about 850 days ago. I am now 57 years old and despite the good level of fitness, we do not recover as well as when we were in our thirties like Joni. I completely miscalculated the recovery and despite the femur healing well, I did not realize I have lost a considerable amount of muscle mass. I'm sure about this Joni.

Ignacio (: 01:21

Within the first four months, I started training again and raised a half Ironman in Dubai and the London Marathon. And that is how other injuries started to show up. Turn shoulder and turn hamstrings. So fast forward about two years later, and I am still not recovered 100%. Injuries have healed, but the body is not yet recovered and ready to raise the same kind of distance.

Ignacio (: 01:47

But I am sure that I will rise above my summits. And this is what this episode is about. The road to recovery makes you stronger. I wrote about that road to recovery in an essay called Rising Above Your Summits. And when I wrote it, I knew the story wasn't finished. It was missing its second part. And the second part was never mind to write. Now...

Ignacio (: 02:12

Eight months after my crash, my guest today went down hard on the bike course at Ironman Western Australia. He's lucky to be alive and able to tell this inspiring story. Johnny Samod was a professional triathlete, an Australian Institute of Sport representative, an entrepreneur, and he was months removed from fourth place at Sunshine Coast Ironman 70.3. What followed?

Ignacio (: 02:38

was 19 surgeries and a choice. Doctors told him between keeping his leg and losing it may be worse. He chose to fight for it. That fight is still going. 20 months later with an external fixator, he hopes it will come off in about eight weeks. Here's what makes this conversation different. Johnny did not put his life on hold to heal.

Ignacio (: 03:03

In the same 20 months, he turned Lockdown Coaching side project, Cold Dogging, into a real business with 16 coaches and more than 150 athletes. And he built an entirely new company, Lightwork. Out of a lesson he learned the hard way years earlier, falling apart at about four hours of a professional Ironman, not from fitness.

Ignacio (: 03:27

but from lack of sodium. So here we go. This is not a story about a crash. This is a story about a person built when the old plan is gone. It is not a story of regret. It is a story of endurance. Another story about rising above your summits. I am Ignacio Garcia.

Ignacio (: 03:46

Let's get into it.

Ignacio (: 03:47

Well, welcome to the postcard, Johnny. Now it's your time.

Jonny (: 03:51

Thanks. Thanks for having me, Ignatio. And yeah, appreciate the warm welcome

Ignacio (: 03:57

Well, Johnny, I want people to meet the man you were, your career at Deloitte, you were a professional triathlete, all the World Cups, fourth at Sunshine Coast, Ironman 70.3, and now building Ogging and Lightwork. What did life look like in the months before that race as an athlete and as a founder? Tell us all about it.

Jonny (: 04:18

so before before the accident really I was I was working at Deloitte as well. So I was a consultant there for a couple of years and I always wanted to race professionally at the Iron Man distance and I was I had some some fairly good success in the shorter stuff and yeah, like in the in the year before I was I was doing really well professionally in Iron Man and and sort of moving my way up the ranks and

Jonny (: 04:45

had a good result at at 70 point three sunny coast and yeah, everything was sort of looking looking upwards. I was kind of thinking, could I do this full time? Obviously with consulting work on the side, consuming a lot of my time, I felt like I could have a better performance if I if I had a little bit more time back. So yeah, and and while that was sort of happening, I knew that I needed

Jonny (: 05:05

some sort of supplementary income as I sort of got into professional Ironman and hence the the Ogging sort of coaching brand was was born. and really it it just started out as as something for me personally that I wanted to grow to to sort of help me race and I started to realize that, what I was sort of struggling with

Jonny (: 05:27

in terms of, making my way through the pro ranks. a lot of other athletes similar to me are sort of going through the same thing. And I just really saw an opportunity there that I could help other athletes pay for or subsidize their their training and, give back to the the, age group athlete community all the knowledge and sort of impart some of that sort of stuff that we've of

Jonny (: 05:50

come to know from all all the sports that we've

Ignacio (: 05:52

That sounds amazing.

Ignacio (: 05:54

We are going to talk about hogging later on in the conversation, but you were racing the Ironman 70.3 in Sunshine Coast in Australia. Take us so that people understand what you've gone through. Take us to that precise moment. I'm sure it's not easy for you.

Ignacio (: 06:10

But that moment, 52 kilometers an hour, I glance at the power meter, the roundabout, I give away saying, what happened and why did you ended up in hospital?

Jonny (: 06:20

so yeah the the the Bustleton Iron Man I was I was obviously quite fit and I was hoping to get a good result because it'd been such a good lead up in the season. and yeah, I had a had a lot of pressure in terms of it was a local race and I felt like I I had the the fitness and and performance behind me to to produce something good. and maybe that contributed to

Jonny (: 06:42

the hastiness of the way I was sort of riding was trying to move up the field because, there was a gap out of the water that I was trying to close. and essentially I was overtaking a couple of athletes on the outside of the like right towards the the side of the lane. and because I was so far over to the right, trying to leave enough gap between me and the the athletes on the left,

Jonny (: 07:04

I I knew that there was a turn coming up, but I in my head it was a lot further away. And I think I looked down for a for a moment and and combined with the speed that I was travelling, which was, we had a tailwind, so we were going a lot faster than what probably what we would have been otherwise. And yeah, I looked up in the last minute. I think the guy that I was overtaking was like, Johnny. I looked up and

Jonny (: 07:27

The next thing I know is I'm lined directly up with a with a givea sign before the roundabout. So essentially what happened was it it lined up with my left leg and yeah, it sort of made contact with my knee first. and that impact I knew when I hit it was that I had a lot of damage happen to my leg. And, you try and shut out the the bad

Jonny (: 07:49

voices in your head that that that say that there could be worse and you're trying to like, okay, no, maybe it's fine. I landed on the road sort of like two meters after, facing back the other way on my on my stomach. And I went to go get up because I was like, I need to get back into the race. It's just another crash, whatever. And I looked back and I realized that my legs had been mangled to, something that you would see in a in a movie. And that was when I realized that

Jonny (: 08:14

I was in a bad way and I needed to wait for for ambulances and and getting helicoptered out because my life was at risk and also my my leg. So it was a a scary time for sure.

Ignacio (: 08:26

But supposedly

Ignacio (: 08:28

you were conscious all the time until you you arrived at the hospital, right? What was the, what do you remember the first

Jonny (: 08:34

Yeah.

Ignacio (: 08:34

words from the doctors to you?

Jonny (: 08:36

The doctors so

Ignacio (: 08:38

Yeah, what were the first words at the

Ignacio (: 08:40

top?

Jonny (: 08:40

I think at the time they were trying to keep me calm. So they're not saying anything that says, you're gonna lose your leg. these sorts of things. It's sort of like, let's let's get you into surgery, let's, do these things. So and I'd been given so many drugs that I was so out of it that I wouldn't be able to make a a good decision even if I wanted to. but they were in obviously speaking to my parents and

Jonny (: 09:04

they probably got to see a different side of the medical system to what I did at the time. And from what I understand, they basically said that it's unknown if he's gonna keep his leg, but, we're just doing our best to make sure that he makes it through through the night here because what had happened is I'd pinch one of my arteries in in my femur and had all these complications along the way.

Jonny (: 09:27

it really became sort of touch and go with with trying to keep me alive, let alone try and keep my legs. So yeah, it was it wasn't probably until yeah

Ignacio (: 09:38

Yeah, literally, so that the audience understands, basically destroyed everything

Jonny (: 09:44

Yeah, I broke my femur, open fracture, femur, and open fracture means that it's, sitting outside the the leg. I had open fracture, tibia, and fibula, which has caused the most issues so far, but and I also tore my ACL off my knee. and they've managed to to screw it back on, but

Jonny (: 10:04

It wasn't looking good. I think at that stage it was sort of like he might lose his leg above the knee because of how bad the femur break was. so at the time we really didn't know how bad it was gonna be.

Ignacio (: 10:17

Yeah. Well, one of the first thoughts that came to my mind when I broke the femur and I was just about to go into surgery was forget about everything else. Now your job is to go through this, focus on the recovery and one step at a time. Right. Did you have that similar kind of thought?

Ignacio (: 10:38

the first thought that I had when I was going into surgery, as I realized what was coming up was, forget about anything else, any plans you had, your main focus for the next months is going to be recovery. So that was very clear in my mind. And we'll talk about that kind of mindset.

Jonny (: 10:57

Yeah.

Ignacio (: 10:59

Did you feel the same?

Jonny (: 11:00

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think in the moment when you're more worried about whether you're gonna be able to walk again, let alone yeah, be able to do any of the activities that you were doing before or any sort of thing that's happening in life, it it really just doesn't matter in the when health is is jeopardized, it really

Jonny (: 11:21

really just means nothing. All the problems that you had just fade away. and in some ways it's quite liberating not having the the weight of all the expectations and everything that you had on yourself. it's it's quite freeing just not having to worry about know things that you were worrying about before. It sort of puts everything back into perspective in many ways.

Jonny (: 11:45

But yeah, absolutely. In the moment it was just like, how do I get through each day? How do I get through each hour of the day? and yeah, obviously trying to just get through get through the moments.

Ignacio (: 11:56

Yeah.

Ignacio (: 11:57

At what point did the doctor ask you to make a decision? Was it early in the surgery process or was it months into the recovery? And what was the decision you

Jonny (: 12:08

I think

Ignacio (: 12:09

had to make?

Jonny (: 12:10

because of how out of it I was for the first few weeks, they didn't really converse with me. They were sort of talking to my parents. And I think my parents were pushing really hard for them to preserve the leg and and make sure that I get to keep my leg. So they they were doing a lot of work advocating for me keeping my leg. and it sort of was just like

Jonny (: 12:33

down the track as the as it sort of eventuated and I was coming around to it and we'd gone through twelve or thirteen surgeries already at that stage and they said to me, Look, Johnny, you've lost your Tibant muscles, so you can't dorsiflex your foot. You've lost all your nerve sensation in your foot, so you won't be able to feel your foot. you've

Jonny (: 12:54

Yeah, you've damaged your knee, so your knee's gonna be, you know, quite the same as it was before. and yeah, they basically put it to me like, We can amputate your leg and we can get at you in a prosthetic and you'll be back on on your feet again straight away, you'll be living your life, or we can try and salvage your leg. but

Jonny (: 13:14

Our recommendation is that you amputate. And obviously that was quite a shock to me because there wasn't a thought in my head throughout the whole time that that I wasn't gonna keep my leg. so when I was faced with that decision, it was sort of coming to terms with the loss before I'd even amputated it. It was the loss of the life that I

Jonny (: 13:35

thought I was gonna live and I could have lived. and just knowing both decisions, whether I went down one or the other, didn't bring me back to the person I was before the accident. And so

Ignacio (: 13:46

Hmm.

Jonny (: 13:47

it was a it was a really tough time that that you really reflect on your life and and you ask questions that maybe you would have been putting it off

Jonny (: 13:56

who am I without triathlon? Who am I without sport? Who am I without movement and mobility? and the s research that I was doing and and I was trying to find reasons for me to keep my leg and from what I could tell and from speaking to amputees and

Jonny (: 14:18

it sort of came down to the fact that if I've been given the option to see if I can save my leg, then I'm gonna take the option because the future me couldn't live with myself having given up so easily. So I think it's like that fighting spirit that that was in me from the very beginning, from when I was racing and training and and everything that I do with my life is is

Jonny (: 14:42

don't choose the easy way out because because it's easier. Just choose choose the the decision that's right and right for you and work hard to get there. And I think it's super unknown whether I'm gonna keep my legs still, but I think I'm a lot happier and a lot more content with the idea that I've given it a red hot crack. I've tried my best. Anything that happens now is

Jonny (: 15:05

is up to my leg really and and what I can do. But

Ignacio (: 15:10

Let's take a quick pause here, for let's not forget what endurance capital is about for founders and investors listening. Firstly, the moment that changes everything is rarely dramatic to predict. One second of divided attention. know, every business has its version, the deal that was signed while you were distracted.

Ignacio (: 15:31

the clause that was skimmed in a contract. I would say you need to respect those ordinary moments because the reversible ones rarely announce themselves. And this is what happened to you in the accident. Second, when the data gives you no dominant option, as you were describing, keep the leg or amputated, pivot or persevere.

Ignacio (: 15:55

You decide on values and commit. And what you did is you didn't wait for certainty. And I think nobody should wait for certainty when certainty isn't coming, right? You take a decision and you go for it.

Ignacio (: 16:08

Right.

Jonny (: 16:09

Yeah, absolutely.

Jonny (: 16:10

It that's yeah.

Ignacio (: 16:11

Yeah,

Ignacio (: 16:11

go for it.

Jonny (: 16:12

I think the everyday person maybe you always think it's not gonna happen to you until it does, so yeah, it's just it's one of those things that you you need to be prepared for and and yeah, just never take your your eyes off of what's next.

Ignacio (: 16:26

Let's talk about what you've mentioned in previous conversations with me, the limbo, no? 20 months now, most of them with this steel frame bolted to your leg, white pants, new fashion, no promise timeline, still no decision on your leg whether you're going to keep it or not. You told me once that the hardest part hasn't been

Ignacio (: 16:49

the pain, but the limbo. Can you describe honestly the bad days? know, what is that thing about the limbo that bothers you?

Jonny (: 16:57

it just feels like I'm being held back. Like the potential that I have is just sitting there and it's not being used. And I think that's what's been so good about these businesses that I've been running is is I've been able to devote time and energy to something that does create progress. And maybe I'm not physically progressing in the way and the speed that I want. And so it's sort of an outlet for me to see.

Jonny (: 17:24

change and see movement and see things happen. So that's probably been the the biggest thing. But it's hard not knowing what the outcome's gonna be. It's hard, yeah, not not everything's just so unknown that, I can't plan a holiday. there's so much that I've been putting off in this time

Jonny (: 17:43

with this uncertainty of whether I keep my leg and it's the argument of whether it's worth it. but it's a process.

Ignacio (: 17:50

Well, Johnny,

Ignacio (: 17:52

let me give a word of hope. encourage everybody

Jonny (: 17:56

Yeah. I need it.

Ignacio (: 17:58

to listen to the episode where I chat with Cherie Grunfeld. Cherie is an incredible woman. And behind her is an incredible man, her husband, Lee. She's 83, if I'm not mistaken. Forgive me, Cherie, if she's listening.

Ignacio (: 18:15

And she's still racing Ironman 70.3. She was inducted to the Ironman Hall of Fame in 2025 in Kona. And she still wakes up in the morning to go to the pool at 6 a.m., jump on the bike. And again, she's 83. She started racing at 48. So, Johnny, I can assure you that we're going to do many races together. So...

Jonny (: 18:39

Yeah.

Ignacio (: 18:40

You started what, 20 years earlier than Thierry, and whether it's with one

Jonny (: 18:44

Mm.

Ignacio (: 18:45

leg or two or with a prosthesis or whatever, you're going to be racing again. I can see that in your face. So,

Jonny (: 18:51

Yeah.

Ignacio (: 18:52

forget about those moments of limbo and, your destroyed plans, no more holidays, whatever. But how about those new friendships?

Ignacio (: 19:01

How about that creativity that came up to build ogging again and to build light work? Those things wouldn't have happened without your accidents. And in my case, endurance capital wouldn't have happened without my accident and many other things. So.

Ignacio (: 19:16

I know for sure, as I said before, your mindset affects your physiology. again, listen to podcasts from Professor Aliyah Krum at Stanford University about mindset and how she had researched about...

Ignacio (: 19:31

how mindset affects different levels of hormones and how your hormones help pursue your plans. So forget

Jonny (: 19:38

Mm.

Ignacio (: 19:39

about the limbo and focus on the creativity that comes with this circumstances. Anyway, let's...

Ignacio (: 19:46

Let's talk a little bit about something else, is a lot of people take it for granted, which is movement, And you've told me before that movement is a privilege right now that you can't move like you used to move, no? That your focus shifted from podiums to something more fundamental, which is learning how to move again. And I've gone through that again, learning to walk. What changed in how you see your own body and

Ignacio (: 20:09

And what would you want an able-bodied listener to take from that?

Jonny (: 20:14

I I'd just say that it's a real blessing to be able to just do simple things in life and beyond being an athlete or doing endurance sport, just being able to get up and go to the toilet or just being able to walk around the kitchen, just really simple stuff, like you really take for granted. obviously there's yeah.

Jonny (: 20:36

There's there's lots of things that that I'd love to do. that I can't. And I think that that's sort of I guess one of the the pillars of of what logging has been built on is sort of, we encourage the results and the performance, but it all comes back to the fact that, it's moving is a privilege and it's a privilege to get out and be able to move your body every day and

Jonny (: 20:57

And I think it helps because it's like people get caught up in thinking about the next performance and like they want to be better and faster and stronger. And just just think about the fact that you're able to do this in the first place, just being able to go out for a ride or go out for a run or go out for a swim. There's there's plenty of people that that would love that and and don't have the opportunity. So it's sort of making the most of of that privilege and

Jonny (: 21:23

triathlon is really a celebration of that movement. And I think that's what makes it special as a sport is because you you're able to, show prove to you and prove to others what what your body can do. And I think that's what makes it special. So movement is a privilege and it's yeah what what I

Ignacio (: 21:39

But

Jonny (: 21:39

think of and it's probab brought home for me.

Ignacio (: 21:42

to really understand the damage that you caused to your leg, you have increased over the last 20 months. Your leg has, your bone leg has increased about seven centimeters and you still have a centimeter difference between one leg and the other, right? I find remarkable that with the...

Ignacio (: 22:02

surgery engineering work that your doctors did, that you managed to grow your bones seven centimeters at the age of 29.

Jonny (: 22:13

Yeah.

Ignacio (: 22:14

Can you talk to us a little bit about that and whether you took supplements and what you do to get to that point?

Jonny (: 22:21

yeah, I mean, to be fair, like I was just as shocked as everyone else that the way that you grow bones is you take bone out. so over the last sort of six to twelve months they've been slowly removing dead bone or bone that doesn't have any like growth. it's sort of just just stagnant. They remove it. And the doctor that I've been working with, he's particularly informed about

Jonny (: 22:44

the latest methodologies in growing bone and I think I've been really fortunate in that regard. And he's quite happy and confident to take out large chunks of bone and regrowing it. So that's been one of the the biggest key things of me, on this road to keeping my leg is is being able to confidently grow bone back. And right now I've grown back seven or eight centimetres worth of bone.

Jonny (: 23:10

and it's probably even more over that time as well, just from, what's happened and how much has been taken away. So it's pretty it's pretty amazing what they can do. And I think like it it gives people hope, I think, as well, who are going through a similar situation that, things can medical system and everything has come a long way that that these things can happen.

Ignacio (: 23:31

Have you started doing elliptical or some static bike for example?

Jonny (: 23:35

I do the stationary trainer, so just on the on the pushbike and that's been massive in and you would know this yourself with the FEMA, like your knee your knee gets really stiff. So like I've been on the the stationary trainer and really getting the knee bend back has been massive for me. Yeah.

Ignacio (: 23:52

Yeah. Tell us what goes inside when you made your first steps out of surgery and you see yourself walking again. With pain, but walking.

Jonny (: 24:04

I think for me, because it was it was so unknown, I think in the hospital the doctors were so certain that I would need to amputate my leg. I think it became a really big moment when I got out of the hospital and, I'd had all those surgeries and I didn't know if I was gonna walk again on my own two legs. And so it was just sort of like proving to myself that I've made the right choice, that I haven't given up on myself and there's still hope that I'll be able to walk again.

Jonny (: 24:30

pain free and and do a lot of normal things in my life. So it was a relief and an excitement really.

Ignacio (: 24:36

And on the worst days, who carried you forward?

Jonny (: 24:39

on the worst

Ignacio (: 24:39

Was it people?

Jonny (: 24:40

days, yeah. It was it was definitely people and I've spoken about this before, but like the the community that I had around me, especially in Perth were such a small, tight-knit community, the triathlon community, that I had people messaging me pretty much every day, asking me how I am and and and really, really nice messages and and people might think

Jonny (: 25:04

i it's just a a small thing, but it was pretty big for me, in the hospital and and and through my hardest times. So I'm really grateful for those people and I'm really grateful for the community that I have around me. I think I'd hope that everyone gets to receive the same s level of support as I did because it's one of the main reasons why why I've been able to maintain my mental health and

Jonny (: 25:27

Yeah, move forward with my life. So yeah, I'd a hundred percent be the people around me.

Ignacio (: 25:32

Did you ever need mental support?

Jonny (: 25:35

I think my mental support, I really had a good group of friends and I had my my girlfriend as well and yeah, like I had I had the right people around me to take me through those those tough situations and I haven't needed to, but I probably should because mental health is something everyone should be taking seriously and speaking to therapists like regardless if

Jonny (: 25:57

if you're feeling good, it's sort of like, maintaining your car and it's definitely something that I want to do more of. but I felt like this whole time has just been like fight or flight. It hasn't been like, it's now time to look after your mental health. It's like, okay, each day I'm I'm living I'm living this this nightmare basically. So I'm yeah, working on that myself as well.

Ignacio (: 26:20

We also spoke in one of the episodes with, I spoke with Crowey Alexander, one of the greatest Ironman world champions and an incredible person. We talked about the pack and everything goes back to the pack. You don't make a champion, you don't get out of the hole. You don't rise above your summits without a pack.

Ignacio (: 26:39

If you're a lonely person, it's going to be very, very difficult to get over and rise above your summits. So your friends, your routines, your followers, whatever, they're going to help you get out of the hole. I think I want to make a quick reflection before we move to the last part of the conversation. And this is kind of another translation for

Ignacio (: 27:01

founders, this is the spirit of Endurance Capital. So I would say the first one is limbo is really a discipline, it's not a waiting room, it's not a place to wait. When there's no promised timeline, you control process and the next small input, right? That is how long recoveries survive and the long winters in a company survive. Second,

Ignacio (: 27:24

Again, the pack is the part of the main part of the recovery. And you need to rely on those that love you, those that have supported you all the way to where you are. Thirdly, Separate regret from...

Ignacio (: 27:38

Grief. Grief, the plan you lost openly. Do not regret the ambition that created it because regret poisons the next build and grief clears the way for it. That is how you will rise above your summits.

Ignacio (: 27:50

minutes

Ignacio (: 27:51

to go. Let's talk about Auging a little bit because that is, sounds really amazing what you managed to build. And you should push forward and try to export it to other countries. This is the company that you started

Jonny (: 28:01

Yeah.

Ignacio (: 28:02

in 2020 as a lockdown coaching project. And it became something delivered after your accident, right? So

Ignacio (: 28:10

If you hadn't had your accident, maybe your game wasn't what it is today. Can you walk me through that shift from a side hustle to a business built around a philosophy?

Jonny (: 28:20

Yeah, I think so Augging sort of started as as a covert lockdown sort of club as as you mentioned and it was really just a bit of fun between my friends and I think the philosophy of of of how we go about everything at Ogging and sort of the idea that you take the work seriously and not yourself sort of stem from there. and it was the way that we went about training and everything to do with our life.

Jonny (: 28:46

and yeah, it was sort of just a bit of fun. And then obviously the the coaching became a big part of of me coming back into the sport, into Iron Man racing. and it was never the intention to grow it into this this big big thing, but after the accident, obviously had a lot of attention and a lot of people were had had their eyes on on Ogging because

Jonny (: 29:07

it was the community at the time that was supporting me and I think people could see that it was a really a really positive community to be around and the the idea that that, you take take the work seriously and not yourself resonated with a lot of people. And we've managed to grow from I think before the accident we were at sort of thirty or forty athletes to now we're almost over two hundred. So it's

Jonny (: 29:32

grown exponentially and well beyond what

Ignacio (: 29:33

What is it?

Jonny (: 29:40

So Ogging is a endurance coaching business. and it's sort of an endurance ecosystem really because my my goal is to to sort of grow it into an ecosystem of of different value opportunities, sort of like the coaching and apparel and we've got the the nutrition as well. So it's sort of trying to contain a a community of people and and pro

Jonny (: 30:04

provide as much value as we can for athletes who are coming up in the sport and and those that are sort of just getting into it. So that's what it is and yeah, it's just being a club that people can be a part of and and represent ogging. So it's yeah, it's it's grown well beyond what I expected it would and that's obviously come with the struggles with that because obviously

Jonny (: 30:27

We didn't set it up in the way that you would expect to scale a business that far. So obviously dealing with having to upgrade systems and manage, contractor relationships that we've had started years ago. So it's been tough, but it's also meant that I've been able to use a lot of the skills that I've learnt through the consulting days as well in more of a a practical way. So yeah.

Ignacio (: 30:50

And

Jonny (: 30:50

It's been it's been good.

Ignacio (: 30:51

can

Ignacio (: 30:52

you benefit from hogging if you're not in Perth or if you are in another country?

Jonny (: 30:56

I think virtually if you want to be part of Ogging, that's yeah, we've got coaching, online coaching which which obviously we can do from anywhere and I think the the dream is to be a sort of global coaching group or global endurance group is the is the goal and I'd love nothing more than people all around the world to be involved and be a part of it and it's something that, you

Jonny (: 31:19

you can just rock up and and wear the apparel or just feel a certain way about triathlon, about sport, about movement. so yeah, it's it's it's for everyone.

Ignacio (: 31:30

Got you. Let's talk a little bit about light work.

Ignacio (: 31:33

No. Yeah, I know that salt is a problem in long distance racing. Can you take us through what happened, how you started light work? And in particular, maybe you can explain the difference between loss from high consumption of salt and then hypernatremia, which is a different concept, right?

Jonny (: 31:54

Yeah, so obviously when you sweat, you sweat out salt and salt's the the product sort of that keeps the the fluid in and your plasma volume contained. So if you're losing salt then you're not able to absorb any of the fluid that you're actually taking in. The biggest inhibitor that I've found, and it's not for everyone, and that's

Jonny (: 32:17

That's kind of part of the reason why light work is is heavily personalized, because everyone has a different sweat concentration and sweat volume rate. So you could compare two different to people doing the exact same intensity in the exact same environment and two people sweat completely different. So the idea is to to close that sort of gap for for people who who do sweat significantly more than others.

Jonny (: 32:42

And for myself, that was my case was racing in in humid conditions. I would find that I would I would sweat out a lot of salt that that, no product on the market could really close that that gap. and that's sort of where that idea came from was building a product which, was significant enough in sodium content that you wouldn't need to take

Jonny (: 33:04

as many capsules as you as you would regular salt electrolyte capsules. so that's sort of where it came from. And I've got one of my close friends, Nick, who raced in cans recently and took the win. He was able to use them during the race and it's been something we've been trying to work on with him throughout the last couple of years and was getting getting his nutrition right.

Jonny (: 33:26

And so to play a role in in that and sort of solidify the the methodology and the the science that we knew was there, but to see it in in a practical way at Iron Man Cans was was super awesome to see. And yeah, the goal is to sort of keep keep pushing the envelope with with electrolyte and and sodium and make sure that people understand.

Jonny (: 33:50

their needs and and part of the reason why we produced the the light work calculator was to sort of bridge that gap in knowledge that a lot of beginner athletes miss out on. if they don't have a dietitian or a nutritionist telling them exactly what they need to do. this calculator was sort of there to to guide them and and tell them, how much electrolyte, how much sodium, how much fluid, how much carbohydrate they really need. So

Ignacio (: 34:15

I'm very intrigued about that because these are precision salt capsules, right? You build that with a team, I suppose. I I'm very intrigued about that because I know people that suffer from high loss of salt during races. can can you explain a little bit, what you brought to the market?

Ignacio (: 34:35

As a differentiated product, what you solve that other products did not resolve.

Jonny (: 34:40

Yeah, so as I was sort of saying, it was it was a product to sort of fill the gap that those high sweat, high salt concentrated athletes could close that regular electrolyte drinks on the market would never because they're trying to serve the average. so the idea was to produce a capsule which was the highest sodium content.

Jonny (: 35:05

That we could fit into a regular size capsule because we didn't want to make a capsule too big that you didn't want to swallow over a long period of time. and so we managed to fit 345 milligrams of elemental sodium into the capsule. and as far as I'm aware, it's the the highest salt concentration capsule on the market. And to be honest, like it's it's not a moat.

Jonny (: 35:32

really for the business, but I think the the system that we've sort of created around it with the the hydration intelligence system calculator that I've spent months and months working on with peer-reviewed research papers and input from PhD researchers and nutritionists. I think we've created something that produces a really high quality output that tells

Jonny (: 36:01

Here's your plan for your race. This is how many capsules you need. This is how much electrolyte you need in your drink. This is how much carbs you need to take. And so it really takes out the stress of not knowing what you need on race day. And I think a lot of people struggle with that. and obviously these sorts of calculators exist and everything like that. But I think I've solved it from an athlete's perspective, someone who's raced at that level, and then also someone that has, a science background and

Jonny (: 36:28

had input from people who are experts in it. So I think we've made something really cool it's pretty exciting.

Jonny (: 36:34

Nick Thompson, who's my my good friend, he he raced with the capsules at Iron Man Cans and we'd been working together really hard on on with his nutritionist and with, his team of of people and he managed to to use six of the capsules throughout his bike leg, which which ended up giving him his his best run off the bike. And I think that was a real good indicator of of the performance benefit of, containing your your sodium levels.

Ignacio (: 37:01

Would the capsules work for both high sweat sodium loss and exercise associated hyponatremia for both?

Jonny (: 37:08

I think if you're using them in in the personalized way that they're supposed to be, I think there's no there's no better method than to get a sweat test done and work out what how much sweat you lose and how and what your your salt concentration in your sweat is. but the beauty of is that that you can, control the dose that you're taking rather than just relying on the fixed dose that

Jonny (: 37:35

That maybe an electrolyte drink gives you. And as he was saying, because you can separate the fluid, amount of fluid that you're you're having, you're never faced with that dilution problem where you're, over consuming liquid and maybe you're not excreting all that salt. So it's about taking an approach which is truly personalized to to your biology. And I yeah, I can only see good

Jonny (: 38:02

performance outcomes from from paying attention to those sorts of things.

Ignacio (: 38:06

Okay, let we're getting to the end, Johnny. in about eight weeks.

Ignacio (: 38:11

Hopefully the external fixator comes off. Then one step at a time, then you hope para triathlon or para rowing. And oging and light work both keep growing, no doubt about it. Can you lay out the next twelve months as you actually see them? Your body and business?

Jonny (: 38:35

I think from a body perspective, obviously the goal is to to be able to walk and I think that's the first first step towards progress, but I do have this minor goal that I've set for myself is to to qualify for the Paralympics in LA in the rowing. So

Jonny (: 38:53

just want to get out and start training and getting faster at rowing because obviously it's a completely different sport to what I've been used to. and yeah, really push myself. I need that sort of goal externally that's physical, I think, in my life. I've always known it. So to have that has been really good. and then in terms of like the business stuff,

Jonny (: 39:17

continue to sort of just nurture ogging and what it's sort of becoming because it's sort of shaping into something bigger than I'd ever thought. And it's probably the first time, this year that I've properly sat down and thought, like where are we actually heading with this? And I think it's it's sort of a an endurance ecosystem which which fosters potential and brings more people into the sport and, is

Jonny (: 39:41

coaching group that you would go to do your first triathlon or and it's the go to group if you're a professional trying to make it big. So it's yeah. Alive.

Ignacio (: 39:54

let me make a proposal to you if you agree. the moment you

Jonny (: 39:59

Yeah.

Ignacio (: 39:59

see the horizon, then let's register on a race and we'll do that together. You put the pin on the map.

Jonny (: 40:10

Yeah, that's that

Jonny (: 40:13

All right. It'll have to be a destination event 'cause I wanna leave Australia, I think, and go see some stuff, so we can we can work out a date.

Ignacio (: 40:20

Yeah, no no pressure at all.

Ignacio (: 40:21

I'm no pressure at all. I'm fifty seven, you are twenty nine, so the pressure is on me because I'm getting older. but following Cherie Krumfell standards, we have pl plenty of time to do that.

Jonny (: 40:38

Yeah. I mean you look like thirty or something. You're probably my age, if anything,

Ignacio (: 40:43

I'm going to invite you to my podcast.

Jonny (: 40:43

Yeah, I can't.

Ignacio (: 40:51

Over two years since my accident, and I've had no start line yet. I've registered to five races. I've missed three. I think I'm going to miss a fourth one, which is Vichy in two weeks. my legs are not built enough for a half Iron Man yet.

Ignacio (: 41:10

but my swimming is. So I have another race in October and that will be the fifth and I'm probably not going to miss it. So yeah, let's do that. Let's plan for a race together.

Jonny (: 41:26

Yeah, that sounds good. I yeah.

Ignacio (: 41:27

But quick quick question. Yeah.

Ignacio (: 41:30

So you take the you take the invitation.

Jonny (: 41:34

Yep, yeah, I'll take it. Lock it in.

Ignacio (: 41:36

Okay.

Ignacio (: 41:40

let me ask you a final question.

Ignacio (: 41:45

You've built two companies from a hospital bed. What would you tell me

Jonny (: 41:50

Yeah.

Ignacio (: 41:50

about my comeback? Let's say coach to athlete or coach to founder.

Jonny (: 41:57

I had this conversation with one of my athletes today about her returning to her first event this year and she wanted to do Bustleton, which is the one in December. but I basically said to her, there's no point rushing these things. Your best performances are still ahead of you. I think focus on being the best version of yourself before

Jonny (: 42:21

And I think look at it this way. You've already won. You've already come so far. The triathlon and the race and the event is really just a celebration of that. So you've already made it. And the race is just to prove it to yourself. So I think just just hold out, get get through the next few months and continue improving,

Ignacio (: 42:43

Excellent, That's very wise. I want our audience and and you, Johnny, to listen to this very carefully. mindsets really matter. Professor Aliyakrom from the Stanford University Mind and Body Lab has conducted research.

Ignacio (: 42:58

To conclude that our mindsets have a direct impact on our physiology. This is pretty serious stuff.

Ignacio (: 43:08

It affects our hormones, for instance. So the first part of writing your future recovery, and this is for you, Johnny, from or for for anybody during a setback is how you set your mindset. But that is another topic we can actually spend a few hours talking about it. But don't forget about mindset, it does affect your biology.

Ignacio (: 43:38

And I would like to say also that

Ignacio (: 43:43

the bar that Cherie Grunfeld has set in Ironman is something really to look at. racing at eighty three years old, a half iron man or a full Ironman at eighty years old is a very good example of what our bodies can achieve if you have the right mindset.

Ignacio (: 44:05

So in your case, science, parasport, and medicine keep compounding. You are twenty nine, running two companies built on athletic performance.

Ignacio (: 44:19

What does Johnny Samot, the athlete and the founder, look like in 20 years? Any clue?

Jonny (: 44:26

Hopefully as good as you.

Jonny (: 44:30

in twenty years, I'll hopefully be a little bit more relaxed and content. I'll be enjoying the moments and making the most of the hard work that I'm doing now as well.

Jonny (: 44:51

And hopefully have accomplished lots of things that I can talk about on a podcast as well.

Ignacio (: 44:57

I if

Ignacio (: 44:58

someone is listening from a hospital bed at the moment or from the runes of a company at the runes of a relationship or a dream in month one of their own truncated plan, what do you say to them from your month twenty?

Jonny (: 45:17

this is an opportunity really, like the time here that you have now where you're able to reflect on your life and focus on the things that you are passionate about. this is the time and I guess I'm proof of that that I'm doing things that I've always wanted to do. and I I don't put things off now. So I think just

Jonny (: 45:39

look for the good in each day, look for opportunity, and keep keep progressing

Ignacio (: 45:45

Awesome. And one habit to a start and one habit to a stop for anyone rebuilding through long uncertainty like you're doing.

Jonny (: 45:54

one habit to start is exercise every day and that goes for anyone Like anything can be considered exercise. If you can walk, If you can use your arms, but every every little thing helps more than the physical, it helps with the mental. It gives you something to get out of bed every morning. it gives you routine. So that's probably the one thing that I would tell everyone to do, regardless of where they are in life, is to exercise.

Jonny (: 46:19

and the habit I'd tell you to stop is stop waiting. Just just do stuff. Just do it because you can. You're alive, you're healthy. If you are healthy, but yeah, there's never a better time than yesterday or today, so just do it.

Ignacio (: 46:33

And this is the part I like the most, the quick fires. I have a couple of questions. Finish the sentence. I am lucky because

Jonny (: 46:40

I'm alive.

Ignacio (: 46:43

Come on. And you have two legs.

Jonny (: 46:48

I have two legs, I'm alive,

Ignacio (: 46:50

Fantastic. One word for the last twenty months.

Jonny (: 47:01

Inspirational.

Ignacio (: 47:02

like it. And the first race back will be

Jonny (: 47:09

Well well, I don't know. Could be could be anything.

Jonny (: 47:19

just go and do the hardest race in the world and just go do Kona.

Ignacio (: 47:23

Okay, and one principle that guides ogging or light work in one line.

Jonny (: 47:28

performance without the pretense. always look for performance. Don't focus on yourself and what looks good. Do what's right and what creates value.

Ignacio (: 47:36

Okay. I I like that. before we wrap, where should people follow you? Hogging and light work?

Jonny (: 47:45

our main account is Ogging Squad. and for Lightwork, we're Lightwork Labs and it's L Y T E Work Labs. or you can follow me, John Samert, J-O-N-S-A-L-M-U-T. all on Instagram. I post everything on Instagram, so if you

Jonny (: 48:08

like following along on health journeys and recovery and rehab and all the mental sides of things that that I'm sort of going through both through the the injury and building a business and yeah, that's all there.

Ignacio (: 48:24

Right, okay, here's my takeaway. I spent two years thinking my comeback was slow. Johnny Samud had nineteen surgeries, spent twenty months on crutches, and used that time to turn a side project into a real coaching business and build an entirely new company out of a lesson learned mid race. That is not a comeback story.

Ignacio (: 48:51

That is a founder story that happens to include a comeback. Rising above your summits was supposed to be an essay about me. It was always going to end up being about people who build the next thing when the old plan is gone. Johnny, thank you for the honesty and for showing up what building looks like under real pressure. This conversation has a second part already agreed.

Ignacio (: 49:21

The day you take that start line in Paratriathlon in Paratroin, wherever that mountain is, we record again and we do it together. I am Ignacio Garcia.

Jonny (: 49:34

Perfect.

Ignacio (: 49:35

This is Endurance Capital. See you on the next.