🎙 ENDURANCE CAPITAL | Built to last, not to break

Welcome to Endurance Capital. Today's episode comes to you from the corner grad glacier. At 3,100 meters above the town of Zermatt in the Swiss Alps. We are surrounded by rock, ice and the air that feels just a little too thin. We always have a full moon and bright skies. It felt right to be there with Daniela Riff, one of the greatest female Ironman world champions and from Switzerland herself. Because this is what the top really feels like. It's beautiful, it's exposed, it's slippery, it's fascinating and it's a place where very few people can actually live it for long. Because the air is thin and the temperatures go well beyond zero. Daniela has spent nearly two decades at this kind of altitude, not just visiting the summit, but returning again and again and again. She is a five times Ironman world champion, she's a five times Ironman 70.3 world champion, racing under crushing heat, pressure and loads of expectation and is still finding a way to perform when everyone is watching and there is nowhere to hide. What I admire most is in just the winning. It's that she is still here, that she's built a life, a body and a mind that could handle that kind of altitude and not break. With us also is Sahan Rana Mukarachi, co-founder and CEO of Proton Intelligence, building technology that listens to the body from the inside out. He's on his own long climb, deep tech, regulatory risk, founder stress and a journey where breaking is always easier than lasting. And he's joining us in Golden Grad from Australia. Before we get started, a quick thanks to our sponsors' stride health. Without whom, this wouldn't have been possible. You can find more about them on www.getstride.com, but more on them later. On today's episode, we are building a durability system. You can actually use how to pursue number one without self-destruction. Manage risk intelligently, recover deeply and stay competitive year after year. We are asking a simple question. A brutal question. How do you build something that is built to last and not to break a career, a company, a life, perhaps a relationship? Daniela will share lessons from 20 years at the sharpest end of endurance support. And Sahan will translate those lessons into what it really means to build a deep tech company for the long race. I'm Ignacio García, Global Early Stage Investor and endurance triathlete. And this is Endurance Capital. This was a special episode recorded at altitude from Golden Grad glacier in the Swiss Alps in front of a live audience. I hope you enjoyed the conversation. So welcome everyone, this is Endurance Capital. We are seeing a 3,100 meters above sea level in the Golden Grad glacier, just above the mountain's results, surrounded by rock, ice and air that feels just like little food fed. So, first of all, cold top of the mountain, it feels right to be here with my guest who has been at the top of a sport for 20 years. I suppose this is what the top really feels like. It's beautiful, it's exposed, it's icy, it's slippery. And it's a place where a few people can actually live for a long. Please welcome me, the Ironman World Champion, 10 times Daniela Wieshe. Daniela has spent nearly two decades at this kind of altitude, not just visiting the summit like us, but returning again and again. To give everyone some perspective, it's a 4k swim in open waters, a 180 km/h glide and a full 42 km/h marathon and all about, only about 8 to 8.5 hours, depending on the course, of course. This is racing on the crushing heat, going up in altitude, pressure and expectation. And it's still finding a way to perform when everyone is watching and there is nowhere to hide. What I admire most of Daniela is not just the winning, is that she is still here pursuing another career in business and sport. That she's built a life, a body and a mind that would handle that kind of altitude and not break. With us is also Sahan Ranabukarachi, co-founder and CEO of Proton Intelligence, building technology that listens to the body from the inside out. He's on his long climb, detect regulatory challenges, found stress, fundraising and a journey where breaking is always easier than lasting. Today we are asking a simple brutal question, how do you build something that is built to last and not to break? I career a company or a life. Daniela will share lessons from 20 years, yes, 20 years at the top of endurance sport. And Sahan will translate those into whatever it means to build a deep-tech company or long-race and a unicorn. I've Ignacio Garcia and this is endurance capital. The episode is built to last, not to break. Let's get into it. Okay, what makes you last? This is our first part of the episode. Daniela, can you share with us what would anyone have to put up with in terms of training load, sleep, nutrition, relationships, family to get where you got to take times, I remind world championships. In other words, why is the cost for the top reward? Thank you for that. Thank you for that. Ignacio, I'm definitely like you said, being at the top is definitely harder to stay there than getting there. I would say there's three important pillars and that's definitely the training. You have to do the training, but then also you have to have really good nutrition. And sleeping is a lot. So as an athlete, you would sleep very much three times a day. So looking after yourself is very important. But then that's just the physical part and then there's the mental part as well, which if you want to stay motivated for 20 years, you need to have very strong motivation. And I would say, it always helped me to stay motivated was to just know why you do it. And that why changed over the years, but I always had to be find it. And I had to have a reason why I would get out at 5 or 6 in the morning to go push hard in the pool. And yeah, I think that's pretty much it's hard to just say like that's what you need, but I think it's much wider. And as well of course, the balance is something that's super important, especially for the head, for the mental aspect that you feel like, of course, you have to put in the hard work, but you also need to enjoy life and and be happy. And it's very important to enjoy the church. Yeah, so we probably have already a good lesson here for not only for founders, but also for anyone in life. If someone only looked at your results, I think they would say you're a dominant. But if you look at your values, loyalty, willingness to take risks, sustainability, drive respect, and the deep sense of home in Switzerland, I see something deeper. When you think about being built to last, what do you see as the core of that in yourself? Yeah, I like to break it up in two aspects. There's the short term performance and that's the racing. So if I go to a race no matter how I feel, I'm going to go there ready to be ready to die. That's pretty much how I race. I was always putting everything out there and giving my all, taking risk of course as well. It's always a part of it as well, but you have to be ready to really give it your all. But that's not sustainable. So that's where the other part comes in and that's the training. So if you want to have a low career, you need to be very careful. So it's very easy to over train, to do too much in travel. We have three disciplines. So you could easily train 45 hours, but it doesn't mean you're going to be better. So it's very important to look after the body and I said a lot of sleep with nutrition, but also tracking. So having some doubt about your body and knowing where you have to be careful. That was definitely, I would say the most important aspect of having that low term performance and therefore also having a sustainable performance in body. I think we have here a second lessons, right? Give it in all, but don't crash on the way. I mean, I would definitely raise that I know, you might crash or you might, you know, you have to take the risk. If you're not willing to go hard, possibly blow up, you're not going to win and that's how I always rest. And yeah, I think in the end, it's nothing worse if you have regrets. And that's what was always my attitude when I was racing, which just have no regrets. And even if you don't win, if you get audience, if you cross the finish line and you know try your best, then you can always be proud. Yeah, I actually found there's that don't receive building a company without burden. You always have to be at a 200 percent to build the unicorn. And that's probably not, that doesn't apply in your space. Yeah, I would definitely say my day or the day or the day of my athlete is probably easier than a CEO. So when we talked and when I heard what sounds hours were, I was like, yeah, as an athlete, your job is to sleep. So I've actually worked 20 times a day, but I would also sleep three times a day. So I think there it's much easier to say, you know, I think you can also come into burnout very easily because you're so you're focusing everything on one thing and you're definitely not that tunnel view. But the recovery is part of the job. And that's why I'm learning now being also working in startups. That's when you work in the office, it just never feels enough. You always feel like, ah, I could maybe work in on the hour. We're in training. It's very simple. If you do too much, you're just going to get slower. Thank you, Safan. Talk about, you're not racing I over championships. You're all you're racing your own long ways. When you listen to how the nia describes what helped her last so many years, the way she manages risk the respectful limits and the environment as well. What's the founder version of that? First of all, first of all, I'm so I'm in awe of being here with Daniela. As the audience knows what Iron Man is, everyone knows what Daniela is the chief. The first thing that relates very strongly to me in what Daniela said is not in the way because it is very easy to sit and not do anything than to do the things that we do. And having strong conviction of that really provides day to day in what you do and how you go about it. So the founder version is not too dissimilar to what Daniela said about an athlete. I think it's safe to say we're not normal beings. We're on the edges of pushing whatever boundaries we can. And the most important thing, therefore, is to always anchor to why are we doing this. This is mostly not healthy, but we have to go for it. And every time we get knocked down, it's very easy to stay knocked down, but you gotta get back up because the why is so strong that it drives you. So everything for me and what Daniela says, resonating, credit is from me because every day I go to bed even if I'm losing sleep. It's so much satisfaction that the why if why I'm doing this company with a whole bunch of people, if I don't do it more than I will, and I must do it in order to give people a better chance of being in the carolite. So that's really what drives me. So why? Well, what we are talking about building to last, not to crash in the hotel on the way, let's talk a little bit about managing the risk. One of the values you highlight is willing in itself to take risk. You haven't had a concerto period, and I mean, I don't see how you could have achieved what you have achieved without taking risks. You've changed things, you've raised aggressively and made bold decisions of people. How did you learn to take calculated risks rather than just push harder, push harder and hoping that the best will happen? Yeah, there's, I mean, lots of athletes use data these days and live tracking on in the races, and I think it can be very, very helpful if you know your what's and if you have a plan, if you know how many watts you can push, you can just really kind of go with your plan. I was raising a little bit different. I never used what power power reader in my racing, I also know heart rate doing races, and that was because I didn't want to limit myself, because at the race I wanted to go hard, and if I would have seen maybe my watts, I would have been scared that I would not be able to run after this, and as I'm definitely a racer, so I can do better on race day than I could ever do in training, I never wanted to see my watts, and nothing, that's always helped me to, or that shows how in one way tracking is important, but also having a good sense of feeling, and I think that is also in business, if you know, if you feel it inside that it's going to work, that's exactly also in racing, if you feel like now is the time to attack or go for the next round, or do that extra push, then you have to go for it, then that's how I race, I definitely always race on my intention, or in my housing, internal feelings, and just trusted my guts, and definitely, yeah, you have to pace yourself in an Ironman, you can not just go all out, of course, so you have to pace yourself through the day, it's a very long race, and a lot can happen, and if you once go too hard, it's very hard to recover, but still you, yeah, I always try to just when I felt that my competitors were maybe suffering a little bit, they're now like, okay, now it's time to push, and yeah, that's how I race. So here we have a couple of lessons, I actually want knowing your competitors as well, and see when the weaknesses are, that's something that sometimes lacks the founders' next slide, they can comprehend the analysis, so how can you push yourself harder, if you don't know what your competitors are doing? Can you share a moment or a race or one career decision you made that you were taking a race and really define your next chapter, that changed, did you work your life? Yeah, I mean, there were definitely lots of little moments, it's often these little moments, like I explained with the power before, with the watts, and there was one race where I, there was a bridge, and I think in Dubai, and I just pushed hard over that bridge because I tried to, I mean Dubai is not very healing, so you bring up each other, only one chance to have an attack, that's on the hill, on the bridge, and so I pushed really hard over there, and apparently my competitors, she looked at their watts, and was like, oh no way, I can hold this, so she let me go, and that's that's how I could get away, and I think, yeah, it's these little moments where when you feel like, okay now I have a little bit of a gap, then you just put your head down and don't go back, but yeah, I mean, I think the craziest race I had was probably my jellyfish race, where I got down by a jellyfish about 15, 20 seconds before the start, you know why, it was the world championship, and I was there to defend my title for the, it was the third time, I think, or fourth time, and yeah, I mean I started swimming, had this pain on my arms, it was, they probably just on the armpit, and I didn't know if I was going to survive, because yeah, it was really painful, and I think that moment, so there was a second where I thought, okay, should I give up or not, and I tried to think like, okay now, if you give up, you go to the hotel room, you cry, and it's gonna be a horrible day, and I thought, okay, at least I can try, so I did give up, I just focused on getting out of the water, and put it going on the bike, and pushing hard, and as I started catching, I think after the swim, I was 10 minutes back, which suddenly, I didn't even, I thought it was 20 minutes back, and then I was on the bike, pushing hard, and catching up, and I ended up winning the race, and did the report, and I think that really shows that just that moment of doubt, do I keep going or not, that changed everything, because until now, it's still the race I'm most proud of, and I think the biggest race of my life, and I think it's just, it shows that just that little moment could have had the outcome of going, yeah, going to the hotel room, and try or having your best day of your life. Thank you, and what you were saying before, the question for both of you, so all data in, all the information available, you have to make a decision, what do you prioritize, intuition or data? For me, it's 100% intuition, got to be an... That's surprising, because I mean, your business is a lot about data, and definitely, I think data is very valuable, definitely for trading, but then when it comes to racing, then definitely intuition. I don't know what the audience might think, but for investing in startups and for leading as a founder, I would suggest also that intuition from the small rewarding that could be data, because if you focus just on the data, maybe you might be so curious, you know, stay back, it's not the result, and your intuition, you know, is only this, you know, let's move on to hand now talking about founder risk as well. For you risk looks different, technology risk, regulatory risk, capital, your tea, you can't get involved in. What you hear Daniela talk about calculated risk and the decision seems to be making. What's the barrel of for you at Pro? Was there a decision where you felt? If it goes wrong, it might sound strange, but not trying to be even worse. So many times we have these decisions that come up. For me, I don't have a geolifish moment, moment, but if I were to do the closest analogy, it would be, you know, three or four months of runway only, you think you're going to get the right worksheet that you want. Everything's looking good, the investors telling you that the term she's coming and whatever reason they walk. And then you have, you're staring down this three-month timeline of what we do, how do we make sure that the service and much like Daniela suggested, easiest thing would be to quit, but then you will have so many regrets. The positive way to look at it is if I just look at it as not months of not being, but days or hours, then it looks like I can actually do something like. So then it goes into operational mode of it's day by day now. And I think taking the next step and the next step and the next step really helps execute. As you know, as you said, there are so many risks that we have to travel as a company. There are competitors, which have a lot of competitors as well. We want to watch them as well and you know when you push in the area we are working in, we feel we're the leaders, but there are more capable entities that could come. So we're constantly keeping an eye on them. And when we think about when to make certain types of moves, my team are all about data, which I'm sure your team was as well, but sometimes the timing of making those decisions to push have the motivation, the energy, the conviction really comes from someone else. I think there's probably a lot of times behind it. I don't know what that is, but it just comes. I think this is where God feel really works magic for me. This is a quick reminder that you are listening to endurance capital with me, Ignacio García. We will be right back after a short word from the partners who helped make this series possible. One thing I've learned from athletes, coaches, founders and everyone is that understanding your own biology is the real unlock. And that is exactly what stride helps you do. It doesn't matter if you're a world-class athlete or someone just curious about how your body adapts when you train with intention. Stride brings you sessions, your data and your goals into one place. So you actually see what's working and what isn't. If you're listening endurance capital today, you're already interested in doing things differently. So take a look at GetStreet.com and bring more clarity to how you train and how you operate day to day. Use coupon code trampoline and will give you 100 pounds of a stride one and 30% of any other individual stride test or supplements. Let's move on on the discussion into the moments when you break and how you recover. In your case, there are people see the outside, the Instagram, the photos, the trophies, the posts. What they don't see are those days where it was almost too much, waking up at maybe sometimes 4 a.m. to go on a cycle or 5 a.m. to go on a swim, training. Then you can you talk about the period where you were close to breaking mentally, physically or emotionally really really tough period. What were the signals that it was becoming really unsustainable? How long did you take you to realize and take a decision? And what did you actually change so you could keep going without destroying that you have built so far? I know this is a long question. It's very deep and emotional. Go for it. I mean, there's definitely more than one moment where I was close to break but I can definitely share a story when I was, it was, I mean, I had been in a much two careers. The first was the short distance. I was still in the short distance. I'm trying to once in it and I raised in Seoul and picked up a stomach bag from the water. But I thought I'll be over it in two weeks. Didn't get over it that fast and had a small intestinal overgrowth. I had lots of antibiotics and I had candida and then it was a long kind of cycle for about one and a half years where my body was just struggling. I was nauseous every day. I tried to train but I couldn't really push at all and then I started to also start questioning a little bit my motivation. Is it maybe I'm not motivated? Trying to change something and yeah, it was a really, really hard time especially because I'm as an athlete, you're quite energized but I was pretty much just my home looking at a white wall because I was so tired and I had one moment where I would go to the swimming pool, try to go swimming and I was so tired by just getting there by the car, was the car that I would drive home again. I think at the moment when I look back now, it's hard for me to know why I didn't give up then because it's a long period for one and a half years and I spend a lot of time abroad. So I remember I came back home to Switzerland and then just really actually I started studying as well and sometimes at management, bringing in something else and that balance and also the combination being back with my family, my friends at home. I think it helped me to recover from it eventually and that's yeah, I think sometimes it's hard to know why you pushed through something but for me at that moment was I think just something in me told me that this sport is too good to be bought and I'm really glad I didn't give up because that after that my second career started and so all the 10 more titles came after this and yeah, it shows that if I give up there, I know I would ever remember me as a child so I'm still really grateful that I'm pushing through. Thanks for sharing that Daniela Sahan in the founder world almost everyone, Pasahana, I really broke chapter and even if they don't talk about it only in T or even if you don't share with your team members, which was yours? I think short-term memory, trumps long-term memory sometimes but almost founders, the ones who are here closing around is extremely difficult, very very stressful, but I think about you know a year ago when we closed our seat ground that whole period leading up to it six months was extremely stressful, lost so much sleep, had to constantly think about how to make sure the whole team reacts in the right way, every time we have a challenging moment in where we had so many challenging moments, sometimes we forget that we're human beings and that we do need to rest and recover, equal meals at the right time and have the right social support and that if you're not getting the right sleep, getting the right nutrition, it has cascading effects on your surrounding, right your entire environment so I found that that to be the hardest thing to manage internally, while making sure that my team's still down the line, we're gonna get over the I think that's that and now I'm hearing how to go again through another fundraising cycle and I know exactly what's going on, right so you can't push it all the time, you have to rest and recover, so once we've closed the last round one of the best things I made in terms of decisions was bringing very experienced operators who've been there down there as part of my team and after three years I mentioned this to Daniel, I finally took a two week holiday where I did not work, and I've been in the past and I've done that, I've always been ready to work and I always had calls but this time I managed to sleep and rest, went and family it elsewhere, but let's talk a little bit about designing your system to last, how you prepare to last, then you're over roughly 20 years at the top, you didn't just design training blocks, you designed, you must have designed a life that could sustain that load in the long term, this 20 years is a long time to be at the top of your sport, what were your non-negotiable structures or rules that made you carry it on? Sleep? Sleep is definitely one of them, but if not the most important because there's no other way to recover faster than sleep unless, yeah no there's, it was my way to recover, good nutrition and I think also really the team like Sam said, I think it's important to know why I do it and I think the team behind helps you as well to just be successful and have trust, so congrats on taking the holidays because I mean as an athlete to take holidays it's a bit easier, you have a manager, you just say, "block me for three weeks" and then you can, it's not always that easy, you have sponsor obligations and media and all that but I would say it's easier where now since I'm working more in the office than having I also things that I can't just give to someone, I can relate how hard it is to just give it away and say, "hey I'm not available because you still want things to go well" and I think what athletes and maybe founders having harmonies that we want, I mean we want to do it well, I'm not sure if you need to be a perfectionist but definitely have a perfection, overall law for perfection because yeah if you don't care if it's good and now we probably don't have a good business. So the founders actually obsess about product my content and strategy and very few build a career for 20 years, can you perform at that level without respecting all this? One, Daniel, I want to be a core, but as you said, I'm what, when I see you, when I saw you were saying and with the media and so on, is respectful your competitors, your coaches, your supporters, the environment, that well, that's something you do as well. How does respect actually make you a better person, a better athlete in the long run, rather than softer or more hesitant? Yeah, I think respect is very important because from the time you start to think you're the best, you know, very fast going to not be the best anymore and I definitely always had quite a lot of self-doubt in me as well. I someone would say it's not good to have self-doubt but it helped actually me to always be driven to be better. And of course I watch my competitors and I always, I would say I was scared of them but I definitely watched them and I tried to, I was always aware that if I'm not keep improving, then they will catch me. And I think it's it's also a way of motivating yourself. So in one way, yeah, it's, it's always, you always have to keep improving and as an athlete, also as a person and you have to try new things. So definitely, if you might be real or have several coaches, it worked for maybe five or eight years and then you have to kind of jump in the next, yeah, new adventure and not sure if it's going to work out but if you want to keep improving, you can always do the same. And what's the equivalent for you when you talk to them tell these? I think the recognition that it's a team game on one side and trusting that people who come into the picture have very specialized experiences and expertise and trusting then to take care of their specialized functions and and and with that counsel on respect. On the other hand, you talk about self-doubt in a recent conference I went to a DC said this thing about what makes the FACIOS which is they have a superior or complex where they think they're better than everyone else but they have a superior or complex that they think they're not doing enough and they have the ability to manage that tension which I thought was fascinating and someone at the trampoline summit will be the best CES have the ability to be strategic at some points and tactical at the other points and the ability to manage those mentions and as I think about my team and reflect on my team as well most of the people I've been able to recruit that have stepped in also have similar rates which I think allows us to build in a very sustainable way. And let's talk about one habit you start this week. If a founder came to you and said I just don't want a big win, I want the career that lasts. What is one simple habit you tell them to start this week that comes directly from your racing experience? You mean a career in sports or in business? You might get too late for sports I don't know. Let's say it lives. Are they? I think creating a good habit. Having a good habit takes away the motivation or trying to say "oh today I'm going to do this" so this and a habit is something you is possible to do every day. So for me it's a good habit to when I get up in the morning I try to do at least 30 minutes of activity now as every time I retire so I don't have to train six hours anymore. Sometimes it's an hour, sometimes I go over one and a half but to feel good in my body to start today awake and happy and with purpose I try to do something in the morning and that helps me to feel better. You do that before you got into your... I drink red bull but no I'm in sugar. Responsible red bull but I also yeah sometimes drink coffee so no it just either red bull sugar free or black coffee and so just no sugar on the anti stomach then so we have the benefit of the... I don't know how we can fast in training. Just having half an hour is not bringing training but just activity and then breakfast after always tastes better. And for you Sahan what's the equivalent? One habit to stop this week if a founder truly wants to last. What is one habit they should stop there? I think not to be chasing too many things and to be focused focus your energy which is very limited on the most important thing you have to do. Right let's finish it off deeply here. We provide a quick fire to finish. Short answers please both of you. One moment you are proud you didn't break. Childish moment. And for you Sahan, same noted last strategic that wanted to come in. And how about one thing people will understand about long-term success? It takes time. For you Sahan, it needs to be very valuable. And let's just finish one sentence. You last longer when you're having fun and you're happy. And for you Sahan, you last longer when when you do things where you don't have regrets. I love that. I love that. My takeaway from today is this being great once is impressive. But being great for 20 years is about design what really differentiates a brilliant from a champion. Its values, its systems, its people, its risk with respect. Daniella think of and it's right that knows when to press and when to boss. Daniella thank you for showing us what built last really looks like. In your body, in your mind, I need how you've chosen to live and race. Sahan thank you for translating those same principles into the founder journey and for building technology that helps us listen to what's happening on the surface. Before we wrap, if today's conversation opens something for you about facing understanding your limits or listening to your own biology, take a moment to explore getestripe.com. Stride is built for everyone, not just the lead updates. It helps you make sense of your day, see how your body actually adapts and bring more attention to your life and sessions. As a listener, you can use the code trampoline for 100 pounds of stride law and 30% of in any other individual spray test was supplied and I hate it. If you're exploring what's possible, stride gives you a clear map visit getstripe.com and keep moving with purpose. I'm Ignacio Garcia and this is Endurance Capital. See you all the next episode. Chasing number one has a cost and today was a masterclass in how to pay that cost without losing yourself. Drive, risk and respect aren't just values. They are tools or staying competitive year after year without breaking down. If you're pursuing something big, this is your reminder that longevity is the real edge. Thank you Daniella for showing us how a world champion thanks and thank you Sahan for joining us today. Next time on Endurance Capital, we shift focus from the individual to the packet because no one stays the lead alone. We will explore the power of support systems, the family, coaches, partners and why the people around you often decide how long you will stay in the game. We will speak with Ironman World Champion Craig Alexander from Australia. Hit subscribe to be notified when it's available. Stride helps you make sense of your data. See how your body actually adapts and bring more intention to your life and to your sessions. As a listener, you can use code trampoline for 100 pounds off, stride 1 and 30% of any other individual stride tests or supplements. If you're exploring what's possible, stride gives you a clear map. Visit getstri.com and keep moving with purpose. Endurance Capital is brought to you by trampoline venture partners. Special thanks to our guests, the champions, the founders and coaches who share their stories so openly and to the growing endurance capital community around the world. This series is made possible through production by one fine play and the support of our sponsor, the stride health. If you found this episode useful, you can follow and share endurance capital wherever you get your podcasts and learn more about trampoline and the trampoline Zermat Summit on LinkedIn. The link is in the show description. I'm your host Ignacio García and this is endurance